DC & DG Answer Your Questions Live on This Special Holiday Edition of Seeking Wisdom

It’s a special holiday edition of Seeking Wisdom 🎁 and DC and DG are taking listener questions live.

On this episode, DC and DG share their favorite books of the year, provide insights into their daily routines and habits, how we train managers to develop their teams and much more.

You can get Seeking Wisdom on Apple PodcastsSoundCloudSpotifyStitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Or listen to the full audio version below 👇

Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the pod with your friends! You can connect with DC and DG on Twitter @dcancel @davegerhardt.

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In This Episode

0:35 – Listener questions
1:18 – DC’s recent recognition
2:00 – The best of Seeking Wisdom 2018
2:46 – The most impactful book of 2018
3:36 – More books!
5:13 – What are you proudest of about Drift?
6:18 – Team coming together and doing the impossible
6:45 – A new marketing category
7:45 – Content overload
9:17 – Deciding on features – the big and the small
11:12 – On energy levels and hosting a podcast
12:56 – Ideal customer profile
15:38 – How to manage a team for hyper-growth
17:54 – Internal marketing
19:52 – DC’s daily routine
21:31 – Audio books
22:47 – A plug for the Build podcast

Books mentioned in this episode:

Full Transcript

David Cancel: What’s this?

Dave Gerhardt: This is the holiday edition of this episode of Seeking Wisdom.

DC: Fans we need some more gifts. We’re light on gifts. Please send in some gifts.

DG: This is DC’s living room. How did you guys’ get a live stream? Looks pretty nice.

DC: Alright, send some gifts. G2’s here. Video Dan is here, Elizabeth is here.

DG: Yeah, she’s so powerful that you don’t even need a nickname. You’re just Elizabeth. You can’t be video …

DC: Yeah I know, I can’t even … No, it doesn’t work. She’s happy.

DG: So, we’re doing a special today. We are doing, I have about five pages of listener questions. It’s really just going to be me interviewing you for the holiday special edition.

DC: We’re not going to talk about what’s in my coat?

DG: What is in your coat?

DC: So, I do have a holiday coat. So, I found the coat that I wore for Halloween. Right, it’s a little big. This is when DG tries on suits, this is how they fit on him.

DG: Yeah.

DC: Huge.

DG: It is big, yeah.

DC: Because you know, he’s strapping. But, I was the Knick’s coach, David Fizdale as my Halloween costume. It would work if I had my glasses. I forgot them. And, so I busted this out for a little celebration.

DG: I can’t wait until video Dan does the side by side with you and Fizdale, because if you haven’t seen it, you’re going to see it. And you’ll be like, which one is DC?

DC: I need to put the glasses on.

DG: It’s amazing. And by the way, I’m sitting next to … I don’t want to make a big deal out of this, but DC was number one CEO for small and midsize companies in USA Today, I saw yesterday.

DC: Wow. I’m going to have to get a subscription.

DG: And then you and Elias were going back and forth, “I love you more, I love you more.”

DC: It doesn’t feel like anything. It was cool for a second.

DG: It’s cool.

DC: But, it’s really the team at Drift, has nothing to do with me. It’s awesome. It was cool to see one more reason to get your copy of USA Today when you’re at a hotel.

DG: Get your copy of USA Today when you’re at a hotel, yeah.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Yeah, it reminds me of like being at a Holiday Inn in like Orlando, or something, a Holiday Inn. So, that’s awesome. I thought it was cool, that Alan embarrassed you in front of everybody else. So, we’re going to talk, well I guess well I’m supposed to do a couple of things at this. And so I was supposed to do one of them, but I’ll do it at the end. We’ve got to record a short intro, because what we are doing …

DC: What’s that?

DG: We are bringing the best of Seeking Wisdom 2018.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Two-part episode over the next couple of weeks. We’re going to have all the hits from the whole year. So, if you haven’t been subscribed since the beginning of this year …

DC: You can catch up?

DG: You’re going to catch up.

DC: Okay.

DG: You’re going to catch up.

DC: Alright, no excuses, now.

DG: No excuses, we have the best, the highlights, only the hotness. None of me saying, “No fidgeting.” All of that cut out.

DC: You cut that out?

DG: It’s only going to be the hotness.

DC: No.

DG: They’re busy enough.

DC: She’s not going to.

DG: She’s not going to.

DC: He’s going to leave her in.

DG: Alright here we go, we’re going to get into the questions.

DC: Okay.

DG: First question is from Patrick, Patrick H. You know Patrick H.?

DC: Okay. Shout it out.

DG: What was the best marketing experiment you ran this year? Most impactful book from 2018? Marketing experiment, everything is an experiment.

DC: Yeah.

DG: What was the most impactful book you read in 2018?

DC: Ah, what? On the spot?

DG: Yeah.

DC: I don’t know there’s so many. The one that I think about, that I’ve come back to, so I’ll use that as the litmus test, is The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle. I read that if you remember on my sabbatical in July.

DG: Yeah.

DC: Of this year, and it led me to read three of his books. That was one of them, the other one was Little Book of Talent, which is a great kind of small book, as the title says.

DG: Small book, yeah, okay.

DC: It’s little, it’s a book and title. Alright that one’s good. And there was one other book, I can’t remember, Culture Code. So Culture Code, Talent Code, and the Little Book of Talent. I read all of those three books, because I liked Culture Code so much. So I would go to that book.

DG: For me it was the year of going outside of marketing a little bit. I think my favorite book from this year was one you put me on, was Supermensch, Shep Gordon.

DC: You see, there’s too many books.

DG: No, there is too many. It’s really just like, let’s name a book.

DC: Yeah, yeah.

DG: And I bought two books just sitting in a meeting with you and Elias yesterday. You both mentioned books, bought them on the spot, so.

DC: That’s a great book, why do you love it?

DG: I love Supermensch, because it’s just everything that we talk about so much, which is finding … It’s a cool story, and it’s fun to read. And a lot of business books are not fun to read, and it’s not a business book. But, for me we talk so much about finding role models and getting inspiration outside of our industry.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: I probably took about three to five awesome marketing lessons from that book, that we’ve applied to Drift.

DC: Yep.

DG: Where we talk about we don’t look at other B2B companies. I hate this, I go on a podcast, or I do speaking. And somebody’s like, “Alright, hey before we go Dave, give me an example that you think is great at B2B marketing?”

DC: You’re right.

DG: And I say, “I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I don’t know that many because we don’t look at them.” And so Shep Gordon was a great one.

DC: Ah, that was a great one.

DG: And I finally read the Arnold biography, which is great also.

DC: Three years in the making, three years in the making.

DG: Yeah, I put that in a backpack.

DC: You gave that to the nephew three years ago.

DG: It’s 700 pages, it’s a great book. It’s too many pages.

DC:  Elizabeth is judging right now. She’s judging.

DG: What is the …

DC: What did you think of it?

DG: I thought it was good.

DC: Was it everything that …

DG: Yeah, it was good. You told me most of it.

DC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gave you a lot.

DG: And then, I could see the theme, which is how he basically Babe Ruthed the whole book, and called the shot through the whole way. I’m going to do this.

DC: He invented a new reality.

DG: Which is amazing, which is amazing. And I think that is the number one thing, is like in inventing the reality can be true in anything.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Like, we’re going to launch a new video segment at Drift, it doesn’t exist yet. Invent your reality, just make it. It doesn’t exist yet. I think that was a great lesson from that. I like this question. What are you proudest of about Drift? Proudest team accomplishment?

DC: Did you put this in there?

DG: No, I didn’t.

DC: Oh, okay.

DG: No, this is not supposed to be about me. It’s not supposed to be about me.

DC: Did Elias put this?

DG: Elias put this.

DC: Okay, Elias put this.

DG: What are you proud of?

DC: This year?

DG: Yeah. Because, the thing about this, a year ago, do you know how many people were at Drift?

DC: 82.

DG: Oh okay, that was high, I thought you were going to say like 40, which is not true.

DC: We ended last year at 82.

DG: Wow, what’s it today?

DC: We began last year at 20, so 20 to 82.

DG: That’s crazy.

DC: This year we’ve gone from 82 to let’s say around 260, 255 I think is the last number I heard. But I think we’re slightly above that. So we hired this year, new people, 222.

DG: Crazy.

DC: Crazy.

DG: It’s efficient, I’ve seen the screenshot, it’s an efficient machine.

DC: It’s a very efficient machine.

DG: They keep us running.

DC: They could teach some marketing lessons from the funnel. But, it’s very efficient. So what’s my proudest thing this year about the Drift team? You know I think there’s so many, and we actually had a company meeting this week and we covered a whole bunch of them. I think is that we came together as a team, and many of the teammates were new, but we still came together. There were no walls, no politics, no theifdoms, and we did the impossible several times this year. Right, I won’t go into some of those things.

DG: Yeah.

DC: But we did things that were, I considered impossible, and we did several of those at least this year.

DG: I think it’s back to back years of suspending disbelief.

DC: Yes.

DG: As you say, right? Which is the truth.

DC: Yeah.

DG: For me it’s obviously the team stuff. I think creating this category of conversation marketing is a big one. Because, the only way this works, is if it’s not about us, it’s about the industry. And I think we’ve seen this big shift of people saying, I want to throw out the playbook. I want to rewrite the rules of how we do this thing. Help us get there, and I think we’re in an awesome time. I wrote this on LinkedIn recently, I said, “I think this is going to be the hardest decade for marketers over the next five, 10 years.” A decade is ten years obviously, but because I think marketing is just … Everything that used to be like new and innovative is now just table steaks.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Everybody has a blog, everybody has a podcast. Everybody’s doing video, everybody’s on social media. So, I think the companies that are going to try to challenge what’s normal, and try to rewrite the playbook are the ones that are going to win.

DC: I think it’s even worse than you described in your LinkedIn post, because it’s not only … You talked about it from a company context, but every individual whether they’re a marketer or not, is creating content as well.

DG: So true. So true.

DC:Whether it’s high G, whether it’s video, whether it’s podcast, whether it’s whatever. They’re competing so it’s like it’s numbifying.

DG: And we’re coming to this boiling point with content overload that everybody … I saw in the app store the other day, and it was funny, because we did this episode about Slack.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: The home page of the app store, was how to turn off your Slack notifications.

DC: Yeah.

DG: Which is crazy when you think about it, because that’s probably the most popular app in the app store, and Apple’s telling you how to use it less.

DC: Less.

DG: And we’re coming to this point where like you deleted a bunch of apps on your phone, right?

DC: Yep.

DG: More people are like taking time away from technology, so you’re not going to have everybody glued to their phones over the next, five, ten years as you’ve had, and what’s that going to change for marketers? I think that’s super interesting.

DC: I love that, and just like you said before, on the … Nice, that’s some old school. Old school there.

DG: That’s some Letterman.

DC: That’s a Letterman reference. For creating the Canterbury was the same thing, suspending disbelief, and seeing the impossible. Setting the goals like we will for 2019 internally. We’ll see the impossible again, 2018 at the beginning of the year, seeing the impossible. 2017 seeing the impossible. Every time we set them we’re just like, or set out on the idea of creating a category, where we’re like this is insane. How do you do this?

DG: This is a dumb name, no one’s going to believe this. It’s how it always happens. Like you always say, right? Everybody wants to believe it’s the overnight success story.

DC: Mm-hmm. Will Elizabeth and Dan be singing Christmas carols at the end of this episode?

DG: Oh yeah, no doubt.

DC: Okay.

DG: If not, we can edit it. We can edit it in there.

DC: Okay.

DG: We can edit that in. Alright, we’re going to take a little turn into the product, and the product side. This is from Scott, shout out to you Scott.

DC: Shout it out.

DG: Long time listener. I don’t answer this, you can answer this one.

DC: That’s a red alert reference for all of you from back in the day in New York City.

DG: Yeah, shout it out, DJ red alert. Deciding to add large features, instead of adding small peripheral products, why choose one over the other from a growth perspective? I don’t know.

DC: Why add small features versus big features, or in reverse?

DG: Why add big stuff instead of small stuff?

DC: I think if he’s asking this about us …

DG: It’s both.

DC: Okay, it’s both. It depends on your product, it depends on your market, obviously, whether you should do that. I’ll answer it for us, because that’s all I know. For us we’ve been doing both of those things, this year. Some depending on the time, we will do more small versus big, we try to keep a pace of both, and the reason it made sense for us, is we’re trying to define this category of conversational marketing. The world is trying to define it, but we’re trying to help as well. And so, we made a lot of big bets to explore as Seth Godin says the edges, like where are the edges of this category in this case? But Seth Godin always says, “You know when you’re doing something you’ve got to take it to the edge.” Or, “You’ve got to take it to the edge, and you’ve got to understand what are the edge.” Then you can bring it back.

DG: Yeah.

DC: But you’ve got to understand like what the constraints that you’re working with.

DG: Damn you’re good at that. That’s a good point, because if you think about something that’s established like the iPhone, or the smart phone. Smart phones are getting incrementally better every year now. But go back to 2007 the gains from the iPhone one to two, to three, to four, to five, whatever were huge. But now it’s time is different. The category’s there, people know what it is and it’s more a feature parody.

DC: Exactly, and that’s a great example. Because, next year … You know this year was about exploring the edges. Next we have figured out we think what the progression looks like at least in the very short term. And so next year will be less about big stuff like we did this year, at least inside of Drift, and more about the small feature ones, like you said, Scott. So it really depends on your context, really depends on the stage, and what your company’s trying to do.

DG: Alright next question. You guys have a ton of energy and synergy. Thank you. It makes the podcast an absolute joy to listen to. Wow, thanks Mom.

DC: Yeah.

DG: Tips for achieving these levels of energy without a cohost. It doesn’t have to be a podcast, but I feel so much more boring, low energy when I’m recording anything alone.

DC: I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m the right person to answer this one.

DG: I’ll take this one.

DC: You’re good at this.

DG: I think I actually almost made a video about this this morning.

DC: That would be a good video.

DG: A lot of people say, “Dave, I’ve seen your LinkedIn videos, I’m just not comfortable doing them.” And you know what my answer is? Don’t do them.

DC: Right.

DG: I think like this is anything, you have to find the reason this podcast works for us, is because this is what works for us, right?

DC: And we have these kind of conversations, without podcasts.

DG: This is how this whole thing started, is like, what if this was a podcast?

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Then it became easy to make it a podcast. Same thing with video, it’s easy. I’m comfortable looking like a silly guy walking down the street with my phone in my face. Because, it just is natural to me. I think you got to do what feels comfortable to you. Now, if you want to do a podcast, but you have low energy, you got to pick a topic that gets you fired up. Right?

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Because, if you’re not then nobody’s going to listen.

DC: Yep.

DG: And initially you have to have some type of … Look at everybody, right? Look at Gary Vee for example, why does he get people’s attention? Because, he comes right out of the gate and feels so energetic.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: Or, Russell Brunson, the way he talks about ClickFunnels, gets people so excited.

DC: Mm-hmm.

DG: So, it’s tough if that’s not your medium, then maybe start an amazing blog, and blog daily. Or start a newsletter and do that daily. It doesn’t have to be audio or video.

DC: I love it.

DG: Who is your … Man, these are like feels like spy questions.

DC: They could be. Did we not filter these?

DG: No, no.

DC: We have the spy filter around us?

DG: The spy filter around us, yeah, this is looking familiar.

DC: Check the IP, G2 checked the IP.

DG: I’m going to have you answer this question anyway, who is your ideal customer now? And how did you come to the conclusion that’s who you wanted to be building for, and marketing to? And how important are ICPs, Ideal Customer Profiles?

DC: Again, my answer … Like, what I’ve learned from all these gray hairs here, is the answer to every question in life, is it depends. So like, I’m sorry to tell you, it depends.

DG: It depends.

DC: It depends. So, to answer this question, it depends, for us, and it depends on the stage. For us, two years ago as a company, or even a year ago, we weren’t ready to define our ICP. Again, like Seth Godin said, we were exploring the edges. We were trying to understand this thing. We came out of this year … We’re coming out of this year, I should say, having a very good idea of what our ICP is. And we’ve only learned that over time. And we were comfortable being out there, not understanding who our ICP was. But, having a point of view on the world and exploring that.

DG: That’s so true. I remember early slides from you, was like, you know, do they have a business? Do they have a website?

DC: Or, do they breath?

DG: And I think that’s silly, because I think some people do get so small in like we’re going to sell to people that are 5’8″ with their flannel shirt on and a shiny forehead and jeans. And it’s like, maybe eventually that’s the market, but we would not have been able to learn in the early days, if it wasn’t wide. And so I think that is related to that question.

DG: Why do you think the ideal customer profile is so important for the future of us, though?

DC: For the future it’s important because of the stage. Again, because we are at a certain stage. We grown to a certain size, at least in the number of people, and for that many people to have clarity on what they’re doing, right? We’re out of like the early kind of like single player mode, kind of mode. Where we can all figure this out via osmosis, for all these people to figure out how to prioritize what they’re doing. How to not get distracted. How to have the most impact. They have to understand what the target is.

DG: I think one thing that I love, that I didn’t expect to be, is you can grab anybody at the company, from support, to sales, to engineering, and you can say, who is our ideal customer? And they will tell you. Because, it’s a part of every company meeting now. It’s a part of like the company rituals. Like, these are the people that we’re trying to sell to.

DC: Yeah. I think like the early days it’s like improv, right. If you ever watch Second City. Like, improv, so a small group of us, 10 of us could do an improv, maybe 20 of us could do an improv. Maybe we could even do 50 person improv if we break that into small groups. But doing improv when you’re like 250 people, not good.

DG: Not good.

DC: Right? So now we need a script.

DG: Alright. You’ve shared the … Who’s the question from? I don’t know, shout out to you. You share how individuals can manage their career in a hyper growth company. Flipping the switch, how can a manager or leader take an active role in developing their team to achieve hyper growth? What are tactical things you are doing to make your teams better? So how do you set up managers at Drift to manage hyper growth? What are you smiling about?

DC: Oh, is this a spy question, as well? Okay. Just checking, just checking.

DG: The key is org charts.

DC: Yeah, org charts, that’s the key.

DG: Next.

DC: Next. How do we set up managers to succeed? I mean, we look for certain qualities in the manager, or managers, and we try to promote from within, when we can. But if we’re hiring someone, we look for the same qualities that we look for in all the individuals, right? Like this growth mindset, this hunger to learn, this agility? Which is super important. Right? This like just get it done kind of person, and when they come in here, we work with them, everyone works with them on the same thing. Which is like, can we put our ego to the side? Can we learn? Right? Can we do that over and over, and over, and get into that uncomfortable space?

DG: Yeah.

DC: That’s the hardest thing that we work with, we work on, whether it’s an individual or manager, it’s no difference, right? And that’s the biggest secret I think to this hyper growth question.

DG: I think that’s the answer is ego. I think the profile for managers, from manager to director, to VP, to C level, to whatever, has been you got to be able to do some of the work, no matter the level that you’re coming in at. And I think that then shows them then how do you show hypergrowth to the team, it’s the Ogilvy stuff that we always talk about. Which is like David Ogilvy would still go and write ads every now and then for the agency, because the agency says, “Wow, this guy is still great. And he knows his stuff.” And I think the same thing happens from a management perspective. You’re just managing, but you don’t ever show that you still have the chops. So, I think it’s that balance.

DC: Yeah. I was talking to Dana who runs People here. Shout it out Dena.

DG: Hi, Dena.

DC: She gets lots of likes on the LinkedIn. And I was telling her some of the biggest misses we’ve made from a hiring standpoint, like in our history, and the biggest misses to me every single time, was we didn’t spot the ego. Ego always got in the way, it was big. There’s been other issues, but that’s been the biggest one. It’s also the source of all of our biggest mistakes, the source of all my mistakes. The big mistakes, always ego.

DG: Ego, Ego is the enemy. Okay, internal marketing, what are the rules … Shout out to you Evak, what are the rules of this new game? In other words, how do you master this with every other feature release? How do you really figure if what you’re doing or not is really good? I’m going to take this one.

DC: Yeah, this is all you.

DG: Internal marketing, I can talk for hours about this. I actually think this is the most underrated channel as a marketer or a product manager. Because, I just have such a strong belief that if you can’t get the people inside of your company fired up about the thing that you’re doing, how on Earth are thousands or millions of people that don’t work here, and drink the kool-aid all day, are going to get involved?

DC: Not going to happen.

DG: And so, we care so much about storytelling. Even if it’s internal, especially when it’s internal. And actually, I get more nervous presenting in front of the company than I do in front of other people that I don’t know.

DC: Yep, same.

DG: Because the stakes are higher, I feel like people know you, and people are expecting some type of response. So the answer is, we just care a lot about internal marketing, and we have this ritual of show and tell with the team on Friday. Where the company basically, everybody gets in a room, and H team shows what they did. It used to kind of just be like, you get up, you share a bunch of the things. And now it’s like it’s a real thing, and it’s like you people take it very seriously. And I love that, because I think it’s an opportunity to get up in front of the company and really be an advocate for this thing. And I just care a lot about internal communication, from how you communicate on Slack, to how you write emails, to how you write internal wiki posts. To how you make videos for the company, to how you present internally. I think that stuff separates you from a lot of people inside the company.

DC: Yeah, the only thing I would add, is it starts with hiring. If you don’t hire the people who are going to come in, be excited about what you’re doing. And, maybe have this propensity to want to share, because they’re so excited about what’s going on. It’s never going to work.

DG: It’s never going to work. Alright, we’re almost there. This is great. I’m having a good time doing this. What up?

DC: Elizabeth doesn’t seem to happy.

DG: She doesn’t, no. There’s a lot happening. There’s a lot happening. They have to hear us talk so much though.

DC: Can you imagine editing?

DG: I can’t. Maybe we’ll talk about that later. Yeah, that would be a tough gig.

DC: Yeah.

DG: DC, what is your daily routine, lately? Do you have any simple habits that you want to suggest?

DC: Yeah, I’m a man of habits.

DG: You are, what’s the flavor right now?

DC: I’m back, Michelle Balaband, shout it out.

DG: Michelle.

DC: Yeah, first shout out on this show.

DG: Okay.

DC: A marketing designer on the team …

DG: Yeah.

DC: Inspired me the other day, because she was starting to do 25 days consecutively of yoga, for this month.

DG: Ew, okay.

DC: And I was like, you know what, I’m going to get back to yoga. As you know, I used to do 18-minute practice for 400 and something days consecutively.

DG: It’s an addictive personality at work.

DC:  Yes, and then it broke one day. It involved a Las Vegas trip, we won’t get into that on this show. And it’s been broken ever since. But, I’ve been back on, I think I’m on … I forgot how many days I’ve been on, I’m like two weeks so far, I’m on that.

DG: Nice.

DC: So, I’m back to yoga. So, early in the morning yoga, start the day that way. You know, read. So my practice has stayed the same. I added back yoga. I read, make coffee, hang out with kids. Then I start the day.

DG: I love it. I love that you’re back on the yoga kick.

DC: I got to get back in doing those reps and sets. I have back on the iron.

DG: Yeah, I like that, to get back in it.

DC: Steel is real.

DG: I made a change in my …

DC:  Why is G2 laughing?

DG: The steel is real, that was good. The steel is real.

DC: That’s a Henry Rollins quote. You would like Henry Rollins.

DG: I went through a little drought with consistently reading, because I just could not physically find the time in the day. And I know that’s an excuse.

DC: It’s the biggest mistake you made.

DG: I’ve always been, I got to read physical books. That’s just how I am, I want to take notes. The last month I switched to audiobooks. Because, I walk to work. And that gives me 15, 20 minutes on the way there, 15, 20 minutes on the way home. So, I’m like wait a second, that’s 40 minutes every single day that I could be reading. I don’t have 40 minutes to sit down and read. I have just been crushing audio books.

DC: And what do you think of it?

DG: It’s amazing, it’s such a different.

DC: It’s a very different experience.

DG: Because, you know me, neurotic, note taker, list taker, fidgeting, writing everything down. I don’t take notes, because it’s an audiobook.

DC: Yeah.

DG: And I’m retaining just as much information, which is crazy learning experience for me.

DC: It’s a breakthrough.

DG: You could ask me what book are you reading right now, and I could tell you everything, and I haven’t written one note down about it. So that’s really cool.

DC: You’re learning the key, grasshoppers.

DG: Which is so funny, because go back, remanaging oneself in Drucker, and what does he say? He says that there’s two types of ways that people learn.

DC: Yep.

DG: They learn by writing.

DC: Yeah.

DG: And they learn by listening.

DC: Listening, yeah.

DG: And maybe I’m learning that, I’m actually more of an audio, whatever the heck the name is, right? I can learn more by listening than I thought. So, it’s pretty cool.

DC: That’s awesome. That’s a huge breakthrough.

DG: Yeah, so it’s good.

DC: Alright, anymore questions?

DG: Okay, there’s one more. No, actually I want another one. That’s a high note, let’s end on a high note. There’s so many of them, they’re all good.

DC: Yeah.

DG: Look, one thing that we were supposed to do at the beginning of this episode, which I failed to do.

DC: Okay.

DG: Which was plug the hottest new podcast out right now, which is called Build.

DC: Okay, the Build podcast.

DG: Hi, Maggie.

DC: So, if you search for Build Drift, two words, it will come right up to the top.

DG: Gail wrote, here’s your plug. Gail wrote to me, “In intro to the show, please include a promo shout out for Build, and ask for listeners to search for and subscribe to Build wherever they get their podcasts.”

DC: Yeah, and leave a six star rating.

DG: And leave a six star rating. So, please do that. It’s an amazing show. I’m so excited about the future, and what we have. We have so many shows, and I think we’re just starting to get into the rhythm of how they all work, and where they go, and what we do with them. And Maggie’s done an amazing job with Build, and she had me on the podcast, which is cool.

DC: Is that why she got a shout out?

DG: Yeah. Ego.

DC: Alright …

DG: Take us out of here, this is going to be the last for a long time.

DC: Happy Hanukah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza, whatever you celebrate.

DG: Yes. It’s all love.

DC: It’s the end of the year, 2019, it’s all love. I like that, it’s all love. 2019 we’re coming strong. We’re coming for you, be ready to learn. Be ready to grow. Rest up. Long 2019 ahead of us.

DG: Video Dan, G2, Elizabeth, you all are amazing. Thank you. Even you G2. You’re amazing. I salute you, bye.

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